The Edutopia Poll
by Sara Bernard
The number of high school dropouts is still sky high in some places, and schools, school districts, and states are scrambling to combat the problem. Mississippi's Department of Education has developed a dropout-prevention plan that includes such goals as school-community collaboration, early literacy development, school-to-work programs, and after-school opportunities. Many programs prioritize vocational training for at-risk students or former dropouts, as some people say an emphasis on career and job skills is crucial to helping them succeed. Tell us what you think.
Can school-to-career-focused curricula slow the dropout rate?
Yes. Relevance is key for at-risk students. Providing career-focused curricula and training through high schools or alternative certification programs will largely reduce the numbers of dropouts.
49% (198 votes)
No. A focus on career alone won't keep students in school. Multiple efforts, including outreach to parents and families, early-childhood intervention, peer mentoring, and academic tutoring, are needed to truly address the problem.
47% (190 votes)
Neither.
4% (16 votes)
Total votes: 404
Drop outs
Submitted by patrick buckley (not verified) on June 9, 2007 - 01:30.
I dropped out of school and now im trying to get into films.The joy of education and learning is a great thing, though i cant help but wonder if trying to force everybody to be the same is a mistake.5 passes at this level otherwise your a complete waste of time?Perhaps it might be wiser to try and develop the gifts inherent in students?Steven spielberg is a great director,and in a position to contribute much to the world,same goes for george lucas,what qualifications do they have? Im looking for a coproduction, proceeds to a variety of charities,UK, USA, Ireland,and of course the developing world,kind regards,patrick buckley. thehopetrust@yahoo.co.uk
When I started at one
Submitted by dexter (not verified) on May 5, 2007 - 12:05.
When I started at one school, many years ago, there was a serious dropout problem. Most of the dropouts were already parents and needed jobs right then. But there were few jobs in town, so long commutes precluded working after school. We set up thee following program to see what would happen:
Students could self select to enter the program
Students did class work in the core curriculum for half the week
Students designed, proposed, and worked on public projects in town for half the week
The same teachers were with students the whole week
Students were paid slightly more than minimum wage for hours worked
An hour of missed class meant an hour of missed work and loss of pay.
The school provided childcare and weekly health clinic to students.
The program ran year-round so that students graduated on time with HS diploma
Results were gratifying: zero dropouts, virtually 100% recovery of previous dropouts, and tremendous reduction of vandalism in town.
Program died when we were told that we could not use school-to-work funds in this way by the state.
I was with some people in
Submitted by Jim Kilkenny (not verified) on May 4, 2007 - 07:19.
I was with some people in Iowa a number of years ago. They were saying then that the walls between business and the corporate world and education were down and we needed each other. Students in alternative schools and high schools were not focused on post-secondary transitions, and really college was being looked down on for the majority of the students.
Today we speak of business taking over. What did we do? What do we as educators continue to do?
Today we look at more and more disruptions in our classroom from tests and surveys and other means to data base and profile our students. Who sees it and what is it for? We say that education matters. Does it? I say through middle school matters, but we no longer offer college preparation and technology education in any meaningfull way, so how does secondary school matter to students? It matters to businesses that want to go cheap on pretraining for employment in current jobs at current salary and wages. Problem is we used to teach for what may be ten twenty years in the future. We abdicate to vouchers and charters. We are fearfull that we are expendable and at the same time relish our expendability by constantly considering retirement.
Face it, given the state of everything in our country and the world, the majority of jobs are not going to come from current corporations. Those groups are going to face backlashes for giving up on the very citizens that made them rich and famous. How famous will BP be when there is no oil in the ground? What’s with the notion that gas prices are up to 3+ to 4 dollars a gallon when there is a glut of fuel oil? Oh, yeah, the refineries aren’t up to speed. Haven’t been for the past decade. Sounds like shoddy workmanship. Who has a better idea? Get going I can feel an oil company going out of business.
Just seems something we used to have, skepticism has faded, and we are too willing to buy some other person’s story as fact. Is my story fact? Find out look see, touch feel, listen hear, smell nose around, and get a taste of the future for yourself.
If dead end career education fits our needs, go for it.
It may be disingenuous
Submitted by E. L. Decker (not verified) on May 3, 2007 - 06:04.
It may be disingenuous edspeak to treat all students as if they are going to college, but parents drive this bus. Our school counselors tell parents that the 4 year colleges are expecting high school students to show their freshman year with at least 4 AP credits already under their belt. We have kids coming into the 9th grade with a full load of Honors classes and one AP class. These are 9th graders! With a system that caters to parents that blindly see all their offspring as college material, fewer electives that are not some AP advanced subject are being offered. Our Governor believes that Career Classes are for the Technical Colleges after they find that the 4 year college is not their game. They do not need to be taught in the public schools. All Career classes are to support the Core class college prep standards. Till we can educate the parents, we will continue to lose the Career connection we so desperately need.
Career focused training is a
Submitted by Gina Katembo (not verified) on May 3, 2007 - 06:03.
Career focused training is a major factor in slowing the drop-out rate, yet, the other elements that were mentioned (parent and family outreach, early childhood intervention, peer mentoring, and academic tutoring) also play an important role in drop-out prevention.
Contrary to some research
Submitted by Matt (not verified) on May 3, 2007 - 03:38.
Contrary to some research and the popular belief that vocational education decreases the likelihood of dropping out, Ainsworth and Roscigno (2005) found quite the opposite: that participation in vocational education classes in fact increased the likelihood of dropping out of high school. In their study, the skills acquired through vocational education courses frequently prompted students to leave school for jobs in an effort to provide income for themselves and their families. The authors further argue that the “potential negative effects are not indiscriminate, but rather disproportionately affect those of lower social class backgrounds in particular” (p. 269) – the very students most likely to be tracked into vocational education classes in the first place (see Campbell & Laughlin, 1988; Rivera-Batiz, 1995; Silverberg et al., 2004). Acknowledging the fact that the lower class and minorities are already over-represented in vocational education, it is important to ask if all schools will have vocational curricula, or whether such curricula will exist only in select schools split along demographic lines of race and class. Even in instances where vocational education exists in more elite communities, it is often the case that “vocational” in these highly affluent schools means classes in architecture, journalism, graphic design, and engineering, whereas in poor and high-minority schools, “vocational” means classes in sewing, cosmetology, customer service, auto service, and other such professions (Kozol, 2005). Such an approach to curriculum risks not only further entrenching class divides throughout the state and nation, but also risks exacerbating the current reality of income inequality.
All students need to be
Submitted by Mitch Ward (not verified) on May 2, 2007 - 19:03.
All students need to be engaged learners. Project based learning and constructivist pedagogy such as advocated on this web site are what is needed. Whether it is “career” based or “college prep” or whatever else. Would it have helped George Lucas to find fulfullment in life if he was placed in a course in bookkeeping?
The total capacity of all
Submitted by Leonard Isenberg (not verified) on May 2, 2007 - 18:13.
The total capacity of all colleges and universities in the United States is 40% of high school graduates. Given this reality, it is disingenuous edspeak to treat all students as if they are going to college and offer no viable alternative by which the vast majority of students might be able to make a good living without going to college. For example, there is a critical shortage of welders in the United States where the starting salary is $40,000 a year- time required to be state certified as a welder is approximately 6 months.
For those in public school administration that see this as tracking, I would make the following points:
1. The continuing practices of social promotion and failure to teach Cognitive Academic Language Production (CALP) skills, which are a prerequisite for academic success in secondary school and beyond, is a far more deplorable kind of tracking since it assures that students with good native intelligence will not be competitive with more affluent students and will never reach their potential.
2. With the high cost of college tuition, working class people have a better chance of paying for college as a mechanic then they do selling fast food at minimum wage.
3. With 2 million people behind bars in the United States, one would think that the ability to make a good blue-collar living might significantly diminish these figures which are the highest of all industrialize countries.
4. The everybody’s going to college rhetoric started in the late 1950’s after the USSR launched Sputnik and we were afraid that we were falling behind the Russians educationally. In order to artificial increase the number of students denominated as academic, rigorous academic standards were and continue to be compromised. Edspeak talks of teaching to standards, but never questions whether previous year standards have been mastered as foundational to teaching present grade-level standards.
5. Viable Industrial Arts programs that were taken by all students were systematically closed down to artificially emphasize academics based on the false idea that retrofitting these shops for newer electronic equipment would be prohibitively expensive. In countries like France, these costs were borne by the private sector to insure a continuous supply of well-qualified technicians from the schools.
I think that our students
Submitted by Karen (not verified) on May 1, 2007 - 17:20.
I think that our students ARE already getting vocational training after school…they probably have a job at the local supermarket or McDonald’s. Maybe the simplest way to deal with this is for the schools would be to partner with those organizations to actually be training students to be leaders in two of the major retail businesses in the United States that pass Tom Friedman’s “local” jobs test. In other words, while I can do a lot of stuff on line, I’ve got to get groceries and fast food locally. So, those jobs will be there and they require more than just line work…there are assistant managers and managers who then move into corporate positions. Rather than denigrating the after school work that students do, let’s see it as an opportunity for learning! Figure out a way to give them credit and also get them the necessary business-related training and support them if they want to further their education. Let’s really raise leaders!
When I started at one
Submitted by dexter (not verified) on May 5, 2007 - 20:05.
When I started at one school, many years ago, there was a serious dropout problem. Most of the dropouts were already parents and needed jobs right then. But there were few jobs in town, so long commutes precluded working after school. We set up thee following program to see what would happen:
Students could self select to enter the program
Students did class work in the core curriculum for half the week
Students designed, proposed, and worked on public projects in town for half the week
The same teachers were with students the whole week
Students were paid slightly more than minimum wage for hours worked
An hour of missed class meant an hour of missed work and loss of pay.
The school provided childcare and weekly health clinic to students.
The program ran year-round so that students graduated on time with HS diploma
Results were gratifying: zero dropouts, virtually 100% recovery of previous dropouts, and tremendous reduction of vandalism in town.
Program died when we were told that we could not use school-to-work funds in this way by the state.
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